Transcript of the Bob Cantrell interview: Part II
Longtime Lake County political powerhouse sits down for Times interview
NWI Times
Apr 30, 2006
nwitimes.com/news/local/transcript-of-the-bob-cantrell-interview-part-ii/article_d6ccd00c-e243-5863-9b2b-0fc870159267.html
The following is the second of two parts of the interview of Bob Cantrell by The Times' Joe Carlson.
You haven't been able to beat Villalpando yet.
This is his first time he's ever run.
But in the state representative races.
In the rep races, we were not adversaries at the time.
[A lengthy passage has been omitted here from the transcript, because it deals with allegations Cantrell leveled against Villalpando that the Times could not verify in time for publication.]
You split with East Chicago Mayor Robert Pastrick in the 1990s. Why?
He fired me.
But why?
He fired me because my daughter (Julie Cantrell) ran (for county judge in 1996) and he wanted her out. He came to my office, and he fired me, knocked me out, and I split with him and went with Stiglich in 1999, and I think we had him beat.
Did you support Stiglich in 1995?
No, I was with Pastrick in 1995.
But in the 1999 primary--
I was 100 percent Stiglich, and I thought we had him beat. And the sheriff's office and all of them went and confiscated 1,500 absentees out of Stiglich's headquarters, with the state police and the election board. Stiglich didn't lose by 1,500. There was 3,000 absentee ballots in Stiglich's headquarters, applications, that were being put in to the process every day. And the state police and the election board went in and confiscated 1,500 absentees out of Stiglich's and the election board. And Stiglich loses the race by less than that.
Must have been a heck of a race, Pastrick's protege versus Pastrick.
It was a great race. Stigs had him beat. What happened, the people that supported Pastrick went to the sidewalk. That's what's famous about that whole deal. They went to a counter on absentees. That whole sidewalk thing was a counter to Stiglich's absentees. Unbelievable.
The word got onto the street that Stiglich had 3,000 absentees in his headquarters, and he's shooting them into the election board 100 at a time, 200 at a time. They panicked. And they went to the sidewalk.
They panicked, and they went to the Sidewalk Six program, saying, you help the mayor and I'll do your sidewalks. That was the counter to the absentees. Because Stiglich had him beat. There's no question Stiglich would have won that election. If he were alive today, and you asked him --
We're in his headquarters, and he's got 3,000 absentees sitting there. Three thousand. And he started shooting them in, and when they found out, when he got them in but before they got them all mailed out, state police and county police came in, through John Buncich, and snatched them all. Over 1,500 of them.
We're they legitimate?
Yes, of course.
It would have been illegal for him to mail them.
No, they were applications that were being sent out. You go to the election board, you put in an application, they make the ballot, they're getting ready to mail them out to the voter, and state police came in with a subpoena and a judge's injunction and took them all.
It was a very unique thing, but it generated the Sidewalk Six program, which tanked them all. If Stiglich had not done the absentees, there would have been no Sidewalk Six. Shows you how sometimes fate has it, right?
What made you go back to Pastrick in 2003?
I went back to Pastrick because Stiglich went back to Pastrick. Stiglich was the county chairman and kind of followed his lead. Stiglich had a program going. Stig really had a philosophy of going back to Pastrick every time. He would run, but he always ended up back to Pastrick. I think he ran the first time in '83 or '85, against Pastrick, all his guys then went with him ... [parts of the recording are unintelligible because of a ringing phone] .... After he made up with Pastrick, he brought them all back. And that's what Stiglich always did. After a fight with Pastrick, he would sit down and make up. And then he maneuvered, I helped him maneuver and knock Pastrick out of county chairman. Stiglich was county chairman. If you follow Rudy Clay and you follow Stiglich, county chairman is a very powerful spot.
I've heard various accounts of who you want to replace Clay, whether it's County Clerk Tom Philpot or East Chicago Mayor George Pabey.
Philpot's the guy.
Not Pabey.
No, Pabey don't want that. It's too much. The mayor's mayor, and that's full time. Pastrick always was county chairman, but he was a nonexistent county chairman. You had the Krupas, you had the Fifes, you had people that were doing his work. Pastrick never did the county chairman, he just walked along like he was county chairman. Stig was different. Stig was hands-on. This guy, this way. He did everything.
This stuff about Nancy Fromm, (the government contractor who was recently indicted and is Cantrell's friend.) You had the consulting arrangement with her, now that arrangement is cancelled.
I haven't had anything to do with her for six, eight, 10 months. Nothing.
How much did you earn from that consulting deal with her?
It depended on the contract, the yearly contract. And because it's under investigation, I'd rather not say. It's still being investigated with Nancy Fromm, so I'd rather not, under advisement of my lawyer, talk about it. I'm still under scrutiny.
Do you have other contracts like that?
No. Zero.
What do you think the feds are after?
I'd rather not go into it. I don't want to piss them off. I have my own theory, of course.
Do you have a target letter from them?
No.
Someone told me that they had direct knowledge that you had received a federal target letter.
No. No way. Zero.
Is there anything you'd like to say to the public about these investigations?
Under the advice of my lawyer, I don't want to talk about it.
Is there anything about Bob Cantrell that you want to set the record straight on?
I really think that because of the length of time I've been at this and because of the success I've had, it's very difficult to justify winning. It's just like, a lot of people love the Yankees as world champs, and a lot of people hate the Yankees because they win too often. It's the same type of scenario back to the Boston Celtics, when they won 10 world championships in a row. People hated them. God ---- let's have someone else win something.' I have this unique quality of being able to, like I said, pick a good candidate, pick a situation to win, and win with it. We've done it with McDermott. We've done it with Philpot. We've done it with my daughter. This time we've sat down and put a hell of package together, a team of us, and put a hell of a package together this time. (North Township Trustee Frank J.) Mrvan's free. (County Council candidate) Ernie Dillon's free. (Township Assessor John) Matonovich is technically free. Petalas is free, basically. This is the first time in Lake County I've ever seen there is a group working to have a smooth run countywide candidates win.
Except for the sheriff.
In the sheriff's race, you've got two very competent and very prolific and very outgoing people running. That's not normal. If Buncich had been smart -- and I'm not saying he's not smart, technically -- he'd have waited until (current sheriff Roy) Dominguez finished his term, ran in four years, and it would have been a cinch. He decided to take him on, and it might be his downfall. Dominguez might knock him off, and can he muster this much dough four years from now, because there will be some new guy come up through the ranks and wants it? And normally, they let a sheriff have eight years, whether it's Dominguez, whether it's Stiglich, whether it's Trushan in the '80s, or Pruitt. Most sheriffs got eight years. They didn't knock out the guy. Buncich has chosen to take him on. And he might beat him. But the irony is, if Buncich don't beat him, is that the end of Buncich's career? Is there some young upstart out there, after Dominguez can't run this next time? A lot of people say it's Tom O'Donnell wants it.
You talk about politics and getting together slates and people working together. There's a criticism out there that that kind of politics isn't good for civic participation in government, the politics of dirty campaigning and precinct politics that doesn't have anything to do with public service and it doesn't produce people who are interested in public service.
Right now you've seen the Democratic Party get bashed by indictments, corruption, negative stuff. But when you look at the whole overall picture, the new Democrats that have come in, Mrvan, Petalas, Philpot, they are very good candidates, and they are very clean candidates. They are resurrecting the Democratic Party. Nobody ever talks about (county Auditor) Peggy Katona, she's wonderful. ... Where before you had the old hacks, who had baggage -- the old line guys, the government has wasted, took out and gotten rid of. The Democrat Party now is stronger than ever, because they've kind of cleansed their soul. They've taken out the bad guys and they've brought in all the new upstarts. And I think that's why I think you're going to see a bigger Democratic sweep of Lake County in 2008 and the governor's race.
Of course, you're saying that the average voter bitches and moans and wants more input in who becomes a candidate, and yet 25 percent of the people vote.
Are the people disaffected because of the tactics?
They're bitching but they don't vote. If they voted, and came out, they could pick who they wanted. But they don't do that. You'll see it Tuesday more than anything else. People by nature don't care. The apathy runs high. They don't give a darn about who's in there.
Don't you think your tactics are part of the reason they're disillusioned?
You go out and pick 20 people in Highland, 20 people in Schererville, 20 people in Hobart, and ask them about me. They're going to say, who's that? The only people that know me are the politicos, and they resent that I can take a Philpot, I can take a Petalas, I can take a (North Township board member) Ralphie Flores, a Mrvan, and maneuver to win. Anybody should be able to do that.
The most unique win was McDermott. McDermott was a very unique win, because he shouldn't have won (in 2003). He shouldn't have been there. Now he'll be unstoppable. McDermott can only get stronger, he can only be more powerful. McDermott can probably write his own ticket, because he became a Democrat. His father was in limbo, and (former Hammond mayor Duane) Dedelow was in limbo. Because the Republican Party -- and I'm not putting Curley down or anything. But I'm telling you right now, the Republican Party is the most inept organization ever, that I've ever been around. In Lake County, Indiana, it's a joke. There is no Republican Party. You've a faction in Crown Point that wants to be Republicans. Hobart is shot. Hammond was coming, but Dedelow lost that. Right now, there is no Republican Party.
Are you supporting someone in the Republican county chairman race?
I'm going to support someone, but I haven't made up my mind. There are still some things out there that have to be straightened out.
The interesting situation out there is both sides say you're working against them. Both sides say that.
The irony is, you're not in the Republican Party 25, 30 years without a lot of friends. I could have reached out and grabbed a whole lot of votes just because I know these people. The bottom line is, what is this Republican fight about? Here is a governor that has done nothing to develop Lake County. Under Bowen, under Orr, under Whitcomb, we'd get through the state highway, we'd get through the license bureau, we'd get job after job after job. When I was city chairman under Whitcomb and Bowen, I couldn't find enough people from East Chicago to put on the state highway, to put on the toll road. Do you know how many jobs they get now? None. Because the governor hasn't organized it that way.
Patronage is what makes the Democratic Party strong. How many jobs in East Chicago do you think Pabey has now? How many jobs do you think McDermott has? How many jobs do you think Clay now has in Gary? And how many jobs, do you think, of active people, most of whom become precinct committeemen in the organization, that go out there and knock doors? You go out next week and take a survey about how many Democrats knock doors for their candidates who knock doors for their candidates, compared to how many Republicans knocking doors? Devastating.
The Republican Party, in my opinion, really in my opinion don't want to win. All they want to do is bitch. They don't want to win. They're not organized. They don't have a machine. They have nothing.
That doesn't sound like you're a pro-Curley guy.
I have no problem with Curley. My problem with Curley is, he's made a couple of negative statements about me without knowing me. He said, 'I don't want nothing to do with him,' That I was Chiabai's right hand guy. Even though Chiabai had his ups and downs, Chiabai was an honest guy. And now that he's died, he's a martyr. They praise him in the newspapers, how great a county chairman he was, right? There was only one county chairman in the history of Lake County that could deal with the Democratic Party, and that was Joe Kotso. No one else was at that level. Kotso was good. When Kotso went into an election, we never lost by more than 20,000 in a governor's race. What did this governor lose by here last time, in Lake County? I can tell you, 55,000. And the governor before him? He lost by 75,000 here. What does that say for the Curleys of this world? What's that say for the Republicans?
The Democratic Party's problem is, they need another (former Gov. Evan) Bayh. If they had another candidate, they could win. They need to come up with an Evan Bayh. If they come up with an Evan Bayh, they're going to beat this guy big time. They would have beat him before, but they come up with these, off-the-wall -- and then the country picks (Democratic Presidential nominee John) Kerry. Kerry should have beat the hell out of Bush, he's a bad candidate. And then the governor's race, here. They come up with a guy like, ah, I can't even remember who ran for governor, but he was bad. If the Democrats pick a good candidate for governor, they'll beat this guy now.
And you'll help the Democrats?
I'll help the Democrats. I've got nothing going with the Republicans. The Republican Party does not utilize their abilities. All they've done is a little trickery, they've done well with this voter ID business, and they've got the attorney general in here indicting people for voter fraud. Which I think is way blown out of proportion.
If you live in Hammond and you move to Gary, and you forget to re-register and you go back to Hammond to vote, they're going to try to put you in jail. Do you know how many hundreds of people do that crap? Just because they don't re-register. People aren't geared to re-register. It should be like the state of Wisconsin, where you go to vote that day and you register on the spot. 'I live here, this is my thing,' and you vote.
The Republicans would rather cry and whine and say, 'They steal, they cheat us, they do all this stuff,' and we beat them by 55,000 for governor, and we beat them for 75,000, and everyone in Indianapolis gets pissed off at Lake County because we beat the crap out of them. And we'll do it again and again and again. The Democrats here have cleansed their problems. They got all young guys, sharp guys, tough guys, good guys. What are they going to scream about now? They going to rap Mrvan? They going to rap Philpot? They going to rap these guys? No. These guys are all above board. Petalas. Peggy Katona. They don't have these problems anymore. It's all gone now.
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